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Post by Lector on Mar 17, 2015 19:38:07 GMT
So... Knights got nerfed. Thats fair and all, but doesn't make other vocations any better.
Sorcerers still deal less damage than druids. Sorcerers can't sio. Sorcerers can't use wild growth. Sorcerers can't paralyze. Sorcerers can't wolf form, use healing totems, etc. The custom spells for sorcerers are rarely usefull.
The vocations aren't properly defined.
Sorcerers need improvement. They need more damage, more aoe damage. Simple as that. They should dish out the most aoe damage across all vocations. This can be achieved by increasing damage from aoe runes and greatly increasing damage from sorcerer instant spells.
Paladins need improvement. They need more single target damage. They should dish out the most single target damage across all vocations. This can be achieved by increasing the damage of distance weapons.
Druids need improvement too. They need more aoe damage, but less than sorcerers. They should dish out more aoe damage than paladins and knights. The increase in aoe rune damage
Knights need improvement, also. Small mana potions give too little mana, making knights need to gargle them almost 100% of the time. That doesn't make the game harder, just makes the game more discomfortable. Give knights a better option. Generally doubling the mana output of all potions would be welcomed by all vocations, and would lift a little of the pressure on the knight's hotkeys. Another option would be to allow knights to use strong mana potions, maybe with a higher level requirement than other vocations.
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Post by Bicepspump on Mar 17, 2015 20:45:29 GMT
Im sorry to say that I disagree with almost everything you wrote here.
Sorcerers: Yes, they aren't that good to be honest but then again I think people underestimate sorcerers spells. You can dish out alot of damage with the UE, two energy waves + the custom spell that I think is really amazing.
Druids: Why would they need a damage improvement? They do more aoe damage than both paladin and knights with AOE runes, UE and waves.
Paladins: We do have the most single target damage. Do you realize how much damage we do on bosses? That is our main advantage as a vocation in my opinion.
Knights: Does not need any improvement, they are the only vocation that needs to be looked into as far as nerfing goes.
What you have to have in mind when considering balancing is that they have put alot of emphasis on the PvP aspect of they game when you look on the balancing page, and rightfully so. I think the PvP is a important part of the balancingaspect. I know that doesn't play in right now but it is a big thing for the server overall. Therefore the idea of increasing the manapotions isn't really a valid option for knights in my opinion. We can't just have changes that fit ut as of now but have a more vivid perspective of the server as a whole.
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Post by jamalswaxon on Mar 17, 2015 21:13:03 GMT
Potions don't need to be reworked because it would make the server much much easier. I agree that sorcerers should get some sort of damage boost, as the pyroblast spell is too low of damage (You can do more with sd in the time it takes to cast the spell). TL;DR: Sorcerers aren't worth playing if you had to choose a group of 6 people to play with, why not have 3 druid instead of 2 druid and 1 sorc.
Druids, knights, and paladins are fine. Idk how much damage was nerfed on knight, but their damage output WAS too high to be fair.
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Post by Lector on Mar 17, 2015 21:49:54 GMT
Good points, but i'm not suggesting improving ue or wave damage for durids. Just aoe runes.
Also, sorcerers deal less damage with ue+wave+beam+custom spell than druids deal with ue+wave+wave+avalanche because of the magic level difference.
Paladins do deal more single target damage, but only barely. There are big hits, but thats misleading. The average damage is not that high.
Knights were nerfed already. The problem with knights is that gargling down mana potions is discomfortable and silly. I'm not talking about damage, that nerf already came. I'm talking about actually playing the character. As of right now its mash 5 hotkeys and throw in some health potions in between. Improving the mana potions allows knights to actually press hotkeys instead of mashing them. I have the following hotkeys at f4-f8: exura ico, exori, exori min, exori gran, mana potion. I have to mash the mana potion hotkey 100% of the time i'm hunting. When killing things, when luring more things, when walking from one spot to the other. 100% of the time. Just gargling down the potions, like i was trying to drown myself in it. Thats discomfortable, and in reality hurts my hands.
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Post by Bicepspump on Mar 17, 2015 23:01:21 GMT
Magic lvl differance has nothing to do with vocation baalance. What Im pointing out is the overall AOE damage mages can put out if they max out all their cooldowns. Especially sorcerers whom have 2 separate waves/beams with separate cooldowns compared to the druids 1.
What Im pointing out is bossfights. The most bosses are immune to death and therefore paladins play a huge role here. And I can say I hit consistantly 800-1000 hits with utito tempo san on a boss. And that is not to be overlooked.
Well if you want to speedhunt with a knight using all spells that is what you have to do. Thats the whole point of not letting knights use the bigger potions. Is it really that hard? Just watch the cooldowns and hold your finger gently on the manapotion button and change it up when you got your cooldowns ready!
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Post by Fixuki on Mar 18, 2015 0:29:56 GMT
Potions don't need to be reworked because it would make the server much much easier. I agree that sorcerers should get some sort of damage boost, as the pyroblast spell is too low of damage (You can do more with sd in the time it takes to cast the spell). TL;DR: Sorcerers aren't worth playing if you had to choose a group of 6 people to play with, why not have 3 druid instead of 2 druid and 1 sorc. Druids, knights, and paladins are fine. Idk how much damage was nerfed on knight, but their damage output WAS too high to be fair. Gotta agree with Jamal on this one, sorcerers should be looked at to be honest. There's no reason at all to take a sorcerer hunting with you if you can take a druid instead, they just are way more useful at tasks (not to mention at the custom monsters, the most important ones are weak/neutral to earth). The great energy beam and energy wave do not have huge damages, nothing out of the ordinary compared to druids (I can apply a loop of terra wave -> AOE rune -> terra wave on cooldown. A sorcerer can probably use energy wave -> great energy beam -> energy wave on cooldown, yet wouldn't hit all the monsters with his beam & would have to reposition every time he uses the wave in order to hit atleast 3 & then go back to his former position in order to hit 8 monsters around the knight. Doesn't seem very fair to me since I can also heal my knight during the loop). The pyroblast is a fun spell to use every now and then, and can be very useful in PVP situations (but hey, let's be real, there will never be a real war on Ruthless Chaos, just some mindless battling over nothing). Honestly, by raising the damage output on all spells/runes by say 25% you would create a difference. Kegni would be hitting 770~ with sds instead of 630. Wouldn't be a huge difference, heck it would mean 1 SD charge while hunting Warlocks or whatever, yet it would be a significant enough change to notice it while hunting (little higher exp per hour and above all: more damage than his mentally challenged cousin the druid, who prefers to support others instead of creating havoc, as it should be). This change could be applied to all spells & runes used by a sorcerer in order to make them atleast a little more viable in PVP and PVE situations.
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Post by Lector on Mar 18, 2015 3:42:14 GMT
That might be hard to implement, fixuki.
And the magic level difference IS a balancing issue. One feature of being a druid is having 5 free magic levels due to the wolf form. Sorcerers don't have that, therefore sorcerers have by default a difference of 5 in magic level. On top of that, druids have sio. Sio means their magic level raises faster because they are hunting more often with knights and sioing them.
One solution could be to make sorcerers advance their magic level faster. But that would take a while to affect the game.
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Post by Fixuki on Mar 18, 2015 7:10:54 GMT
That might be hard to implement, fixuki. And the magic level difference IS a balancing issue. One feature of being a druid is having 5 free magic levels due to the wolf form. Sorcerers don't have that, therefore sorcerers have by default a difference of 5 in magic level. On top of that, druids have sio. Sio means their magic level raises faster because they are hunting more often with knights and sioing them. One solution could be to make sorcerers advance their magic level faster. But that would take a while to affect the game. Oh yeah, about the free magic level, that should be fixed. It's not supposed to stay when you get out of wolf form. As for the sioing, sorcerers can get the same magic level as druids really. The reason most sorcerers magic level is lower is the simple fact that they teamhunted less and most didn't make their own sds using pots. Rewyn barksdales for example had a higher magic level than me throughout all the time he played, despite me being a druid spamming sio. That's because he invested time in making his own sds to make up for the fact he didn't hunt with waves (like I did while teamhunting).
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Post by Lector on Mar 20, 2015 2:21:20 GMT
Why do you guys keep ignoring the fact that sorcerers are essentially druids without sio/wild growth/paralyze?
Druids have earth wave, strong ice wave.
Sorcerers have energy wave and great energy beam.
They don't have extra waves and beams.
A DRUID CAN DO EVERYTHING A SORCERER DOES, BUT A SORCERER CAN'T DO EVERYTHING A DRUID DOES. SIMPLE AS THAT.
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Post by Fixuki on Mar 20, 2015 8:15:08 GMT
You however have to realise that ice and earth are way less usefull in normal settings, the only reason druids are so damn viable is because most custom monsters are weak to ice or earth.
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Post by Afflicted on Mar 29, 2015 23:33:06 GMT
So adjusting monster weaknesses may be a more feasible way to to make sorcerers more integral to a successful hunt?
Just a thought.
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Post by Dirty Dawg on Apr 2, 2015 4:23:35 GMT
I knew sorcerers wasnt going to be worth much, just from playing season one. I asked during the beta phase if they thought they changed the vocation up enough to make it worth playing... But enwayz I hate the fact assassin stars break almost every throw. HATE, just me tho XD
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Post by Ignia on Apr 8, 2015 9:53:57 GMT
Im probably gonna get a lot of hate with this post. But i disagree. I wasn't there in season one, since i just started playing a week ago. But seriously, so far everything seems "ok".
What i mean saying that is, if you know how to play a sorcerer well, then you know you are gonna spend a lot of time training your Magic level. Like Fixuki pointed out, as a sorcerer you just need to spend time making your runes! Then your damage output isn't as low with the Holy runes/icicles you bought for your late-game hunt. And because Ice and Earth are more viable then the elements of a sorc, is mostly in the late game, as an Open Tibia server, most servers cannot change that. Why? Lets say if Earth/ice is mostly useless in late-game and fire/death/energy isn't, then Sorc's would be too overpowered, and there woudn't be need of having Druids on the team, besides only the healing, and render them nearly useless.
Sorcerers are part of the economy in every Tibia world, just not loved as much, but bare in mind, if Sorcerers where the better mage class all around, then no one would be a druid, thus finding a healer for the team a lot harder.
Sorcerers are just the extra DPS, and always will be, if people can't accept that, then you got the wrong class.
Kind Regards, Ignia.
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