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Post by GM Darkstar on Feb 17, 2014 19:04:00 GMT
During these days we recieved some very useful feedback on giving vocations some spells to further define them in PvP/PvE aspects. Using your ideas, and after a lot of balancing discussions, we have designed a small set of spells that will be introduced with the next patch. The purpose of this thread is that we are looking for your feedback on them, as well as further ideas you might have. The spells are the following:
Iron Wall (Knights) Level: 75 Words: "Utamo Res" Mana: 105
When activated, it gives the Knight an additional 10% maximum health (and heals him for the same amount), increases his shielding by 150%. On the other hand, the knight loses his attacking potential, his skills get reduced to 25% and he cannot move while this spell is active. You can it turn off this by casting the spell again. It will replace the "Protector" spell, which will be removed from the Knights' spellbook.
Split Arrow (Paladins) Level: 40 Words: "exori mas con" Mana: 85
Split Arrow will fire 3 projectiles at your target and up to 2 random enemies within 2 range of your target. The spell will only affect players if you have been recently involved in PvP combat. The damage will be similar to Ethereal Spear and it will have a cooldown of 8 seconds.
Volcanic Rain / Storm Surge (Sorcerers) Level: 95 Words: "utito flam" / "utito vis" Mana: 215 (activation)
Casting this spell will make the sorcerer do heavy damage every second to the targets within 2 range of him while quickly draining his mana at a rate of 220 mana/second. While this spell is active, the sorcerer will be unable to use any other offensive spell. The spell can be cancelled any moment by casting it again, and will only affect players if you have recently been involved in PvP combat. Volcanic Rain will do fire damage, while Storm Surge will do energy damage.
The "Power Siphon" spell will be removed from the game.
Rejuvenation (Druid's Wolf Form) Level: 50 Words: "utito mas vita" Mana: 485
Rejuvenation will only be usable while in wolf form and will give your party a skill boost of 10% depending on each member's vocation. Knights will get an increase in all melee skills, Paladins in distance fighting and Druids/Sorcerers in magic level. The spell will last 3 minutes and will replace the original party spells.
Feel free to comment with your feedback! Kind regards
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Post by Nowii on Feb 17, 2014 19:23:42 GMT
Druids needs a new attack spell.... We already got a buff lol.
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hero
Gozzler
Posts: 16
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Post by hero on Feb 17, 2014 21:13:39 GMT
Iron wall would be useless as knights have to move a lot.
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Post by rockstar on Feb 17, 2014 21:42:56 GMT
what about adding spell effects? perhaps you could add a floating aura ball for mana shield, as in d2 with the energy shield and if its possible to add spell effects below characters, maybe you could add something like the auras in d2 for rejuvenation (also shown above)
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Post by kekkeman on Feb 17, 2014 21:53:05 GMT
A little disappointed feedback; Iron Wall: Will be useless 99% of the time, at some bosses, in some situations it could be useful, but I don't really see myself using this unless 100% neccessary to survive a particular boss. What were your ideas behind designing this? Most players quit the game pre 50 and will never even experience this, and even if they do, most of the players on this server doesn't even play dungeons which makes it more useless. Split Arrow: Sounds cool, I'd love to see this ingame Volcanic Rain: I only see a few uses for this when team hunting, could probably make them a bit more interesting if they could use this instead of only SDs which is pretty lame considering how old this game is, and still no spell that surpasses SD. Rejuvenation: I like the idea behind this, makes it more fun to be a druid when people will want you in their group. Overall: Some ideas are good, but not good enough. These are too few and a bit too boring to be the only new spells we get. I don't think many players will return only because of these spells. (Remember, I'm trying to think what would make me come back (or start from start), not from my own perspective as I am already playing and kind of enjoying it. Except for the long boring mindless grinding tasks and little customisation )
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Post by GM Kelin on Feb 18, 2014 0:33:41 GMT
We are trying to solve 2 different issues here, and we should adress them sepparately. These new spell pack is not suposed to stop the demotivation of new players at low-mid levels. That's a different issue that has to be solved sepparately. This is a solution for a different problem, the limited team capabilities of some vocations. Having said this, into more specific questions: Iron Wall: Making the knight unable to move is a big drawback, yes, but you need to consider how much impact 10% increased health has. It is of course a spell designed for quests/bosses, but due to it's low mana cost and the ease of switching it on/off can also be of great help in teamhunts. If you have any idea about how to make this spell more efective (without further increasing the amount of health gained), let us know! Volcanic rain: The damage output of this spell is actually outrageous. It does the same damage/second than SD, but to multiple targets, making it extremelly useful (but expensive) in given situations. We don't feel like this spell has limited uses, we actually were very reticent to implement it since it seemed too usefull overall (PvP/solo PvE/team PvE/quests)
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Post by Rewyn on Feb 18, 2014 1:13:44 GMT
I believe you are focusing on the wrong part in a very crucial time. Your main focus should be bringing players in, and making players stay.
Tasks, as i mentioned before need to be reworked, and that is a fact. Theres no way around it. Yesterday i killed 600 magma beasts, it took me over 8 hours. My reward, was a shield. The task had bad xp / hour, bad loot. And the reward was insulting. If having such a ridicilous task, atleast make it so every vocation gets rewarded. Cant be hard to add rewards depending on vocation.
Another thing is mapping, you made everything envolved around Port Sarlin, and that place looks like a trashcan. It's like 7 houses, having 10 sqm each. I would start mapping that area asap, making it a city. It looks so un-professional right now. People like houses, update them, 90% of them look like garbage, zero effort. (I know a few people who would gladly help with city/house mapping if time is the issue)
Up to level 80 is the most crucial time for players, you should do everything to improve those areas, and everything leading up to it.
Spells is the last concern atm.
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Post by murked on Feb 18, 2014 1:18:57 GMT
I agree with rewyn, your server will have 0 people online in a week if you don't pull your finger out now, you have 2 start updating, fixing stuff that is turning people off this server, tasks, hunting places, towns, it all needs to be fixed, do it before it's 2 late.
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Post by Xemos on Feb 18, 2014 4:05:10 GMT
Iron Wall: Making the knight unable to move is a big drawback, yes, but you need to consider how much impact 10% increased health has. It is of course a spell designed for quests/bosses, but due to it's low mana cost and the ease of switching it on/off can also be of great help in teamhunts. If you have any idea about how to make this spell more efective (without further increasing the amount of health gained), let us know! Heres my idea: make it increase max health by 10%, increase shield skill by 150%, reduce all melee skills and magic level by 100%, prevent healing spells and potions, prevent movement, heal the knight for 20% of their max health per second, and challenge the creatures next to the knight once per second. It would then prevent the knight from doing damage and moving but allow them to keep the creatures next to them attacking the knight, as well as changing the way they heal during the spell.
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Post by rockstar on Feb 18, 2014 5:18:23 GMT
Iron Wall: Making the knight unable to move is a big drawback, yes, but you need to consider how much impact 10% increased health has. It is of course a spell designed for quests/bosses, but due to it's low mana cost and the ease of switching it on/off can also be of great help in teamhunts. If you have any idea about how to make this spell more efective (without further increasing the amount of health gained), let us know! Heres my idea: make it increase max health by 10%, increase shield skill by 150%, reduce all melee skills and magic level by 100%, prevent healing spells and potions, prevent movement, heal the knight for 20% of their max health per second, and challenge the creatures next to the knight once per second. It would then prevent the knight from doing damage and moving but allow them to keep the creatures next to them attacking the knight, as well as changing the way they heal during the spell. nice idea, was actually thinking of something similar earlier (healing + root) but couldnt fit it in the knight role. perhaps we could have a "warcry" like effect casted around the character if its not to hard to animate
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Post by kekkeman on Feb 18, 2014 7:35:05 GMT
We are trying to solve 2 different issues here, and we should adress them sepparately. These new spell pack is not suposed to stop the demotivation of new players at low-mid levels. That's a different issue that has to be solved sepparately. This is a solution for a different problem, the limited team capabilities of some vocations. Having said this, into more specific questions: Iron Wall: Making the knight unable to move is a big drawback, yes, but you need to consider how much impact 10% increased health has. It is of course a spell designed for quests/bosses, but due to it's low mana cost and the ease of switching it on/off can also be of great help in teamhunts. If you have any idea about how to make this spell more efective (without further increasing the amount of health gained), let us know! Volcanic rain: The damage output of this spell is actually outrageous. It does the same damage/second than SD, but to multiple targets, making it extremelly useful (but expensive) in given situations. We don't feel like this spell has limited uses, we actually were very reticent to implement it since it seemed too usefull overall (PvP/solo PvE/team PvE/quests) Another thing on the 10% increased health, it doesn't really have that much of impact to be honest. As of now I have 1610 HP which means I would have 1771 HP with the spell, an increase of 161 to remove the ability to attack and move. I don't see me using the spell at any time to be honest, I'd rather kite the mob for a few steps instead of the bonuses. Tibia is and has always been so careful when increasing stats that they are close to pointless in most cases, if you are going to remove 100% offensive and 100% movement, add something more than +50% shielding and 10%hp.
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Post by GM Kelin on Feb 18, 2014 13:48:05 GMT
Iron Wall: Making the knight unable to move is a big drawback, yes, but you need to consider how much impact 10% increased health has. It is of course a spell designed for quests/bosses, but due to it's low mana cost and the ease of switching it on/off can also be of great help in teamhunts. If you have any idea about how to make this spell more efective (without further increasing the amount of health gained), let us know! Heres my idea: make it increase max health by 10%, increase shield skill by 150%, reduce all melee skills and magic level by 100%, prevent healing spells and potions, prevent movement, heal the knight for 20% of their max health per second, and challenge the creatures next to the knight once per second. It would then prevent the knight from doing damage and moving but allow them to keep the creatures next to them attacking the knight, as well as changing the way they heal during the spell. The healing part could easily be abused. We think we have found a new solution for Iron wall to be effective: Instead of reducing the skills to 25%, it will reduce them to 65% (to only limit the offensive capabilities of the knight, not eliminate them). While in Iron wall, it will challenge the creatures around the knight every second (we really liked that idea!). The knight will still be able to cast offensive and healing spells, and will loose the ability to move. We feel like this will make the spell useful also during teamhunts for example, where you will still be able to output damage, while increasing your survivability quite a lot, and not running the danger of the creatures retargeting to your shooter/healer without you bein able to react. About it's use in bosses, being unable to move is not such a great drawback. If you fear the beam/wave of a boss, the team can easily use wild growth runes to keep the monster diagonal from the knight while he uses Iron Wall. Another thing we like about the spell as it is right now is that it stays useful troughout the levels. At low-mid levels, the HP boost may not be significant, but having 250% shielding mitigates a lot of damage (people tend to really underestimate damage reduction from shields). At high levels, where the shielding increase might not be that decisive anymore, the HP boost makes up for it.
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Post by kekkeman on Feb 18, 2014 15:00:46 GMT
Heres my idea: make it increase max health by 10%, increase shield skill by 150%, reduce all melee skills and magic level by 100%, prevent healing spells and potions, prevent movement, heal the knight for 20% of their max health per second, and challenge the creatures next to the knight once per second. It would then prevent the knight from doing damage and moving but allow them to keep the creatures next to them attacking the knight, as well as changing the way they heal during the spell. The healing part could easily be abused. We think we have found a new solution for Iron wall to be effective: Instead of reducing the skills to 25%, it will reduce them to 65% (to only limit the offensive capabilities of the knight, not eliminate them). While in Iron wall, it will challenge the creatures around the knight every second (we really liked that idea!). The knight will still be able to cast offensive and healing spells, and will loose the ability to move. We feel like this will make the spell useful also during teamhunts for example, where you will still be able to output damage, while increasing your survivability quite a lot, and not running the danger of the creatures retargeting to your shooter/healer without you bein able to react. About it's use in bosses, being unable to move is not such a great drawback. If you fear the beam/wave of a boss, the team can easily use wild growth runes to keep the monster diagonal from the knight while he uses Iron Wall. Another thing we like about the spell as it is right now is that it stays useful troughout the levels. At low-mid levels, the HP boost may not be significant, but having 250% shielding mitigates a lot of damage (people tend to really underestimate damage reduction from shields). At high levels, where the shielding increase might not be that decisive anymore, the HP boost makes up for it. Sounds good but, many creatures use magic damage and this is something Tibia has never thought of (afaik). 250% shielding might be great when hunting phys. dmg creatures, but does it help vs bosses that deal 90% of all damage through magic? This is more a problem with Tibia rather than Ruthless, and I still haven't see a solid OT that solves this, getting magic resistance should be a possibility in my opinion. But then again, mages would need more magic level items in order to cope with it.
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Post by rockstar on Feb 18, 2014 15:21:53 GMT
The healing part could easily be abused. We think we have found a new solution for Iron wall to be effective: Instead of reducing the skills to 25%, it will reduce them to 65% (to only limit the offensive capabilities of the knight, not eliminate them). While in Iron wall, it will challenge the creatures around the knight every second (we really liked that idea!). The knight will still be able to cast offensive and healing spells, and will loose the ability to move. We feel like this will make the spell useful also during teamhunts for example, where you will still be able to output damage, while increasing your survivability quite a lot, and not running the danger of the creatures retargeting to your shooter/healer without you bein able to react. About it's use in bosses, being unable to move is not such a great drawback. If you fear the beam/wave of a boss, the team can easily use wild growth runes to keep the monster diagonal from the knight while he uses Iron Wall. Another thing we like about the spell as it is right now is that it stays useful troughout the levels. At low-mid levels, the HP boost may not be significant, but having 250% shielding mitigates a lot of damage (people tend to really underestimate damage reduction from shields). At high levels, where the shielding increase might not be that decisive anymore, the HP boost makes up for it. Sounds good but, many creatures use magic damage and this is something Tibia has never thought of (afaik). 250% shielding might be great when hunting phys. dmg creatures, but does it help vs bosses that deal 90% of all damage through magic? This is more a problem with Tibia rather than Ruthless, and I still haven't see a solid OT that solves this, getting magic resistance should be a possibility in my opinion. But then again, mages would need more magic level items in order to cope with it. I've seen items with resitance against chaos and hellfire damage and a few other interesting resistance items, I believe these are for bosses later
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Post by GM Kelin on Feb 18, 2014 18:35:14 GMT
When designing bosses (at almost all levels of play), we make sure that there is a high phyisical component in their damage. Of course this does not apply to all creatures, but you have to keep in mind that the server's team-component (team-hunting and quests) are designed to have high physical damage components.
It is possible for knights to get resistance against elements, there are certain equipment items that allow you to get them.
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